MikeSlater
Politics • Spirituality/Belief • Culture
Charlie Kirk's Mentor, Dr. Frank Turek
Politics By Faith, November 13, 2025
November 13, 2025

15 years ago, before I was a Christian, my friend handed me a book by Dr. Frank Turek. I think about this book all the time. It turns out the author was Charlie Kirk's mentor and spoke at Berkeley the other day amidst the violence. Here is our interview with Dr. Turek on ontology, spistomology and theodicy.

Welcome to Politics by Faith. Thank you for being here with a special episode today. This morning on my Sirius XM radio show, Breitbart News Daily, had the honor of talking with a one Dr. Frank Turek, mentor of Charlie Kirk, standing right next to him when Charlie was assassinated on September 10th. And he spoke at Berkeley University the other day where there was all the riots and protests out front. Great honor to talk to this man who is very influential in my becoming a Christian. 

I had a militant atheist once at Michigan State ask me this question. He said, if there is a good God, why doesn't he stop all the evil in the world? And I said, sir, that is an excellent question. Maybe because if he did, he might start with you and me because we do evil every day. You ever notice we start complaining about evil. We always start complaining about somebody else doing it. 

It's like, hey, God, why don't you stop him? God, why don't you stop her? God, why don't you stop the shooter? God, why don't you stop Hitler? 

God, why don't you stop? 

Why do we never say, God, why don't you stop me? Ladies and gentlemen, if God were to stop evil at midnight tonight, would you still be alive at 1201? 

There you go. America is the greatest country in the world. Good morning. That is Dr. Frank Turek. He is the president of CrossExamined . org and the author of a book that my friend Paul gave to me right before I became a Christian. 

It's the most influential book, other than the Bible, of course. I didn't even know what apologetics was. The book's called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, and I think about it all the time. It's the book I've given to the most people in my 15 years since it was first handed to me. You also happen to be Charlie Kirk's mentor. And that was a speech last night, or a couple nights ago, at Berkeley University. 

Dr. Turek, how are you, sir? 

Mike, I'm doing fine. But Antifa, want that event to go on, as you know. But God has a plan. More attention was brought to that event because of their crude, vile behavior. And that's one reason why we're having this conversation, I guess. 

Yeah, that's right. Did you feel the chaos? We saw it outside. 

Did you feel it? 

Oh, yeah. We were already inside before all that had begun. But it's amazing to me, the people who say they're fighting for inclusion, tolerance and diversity will not include you and will not tolerate you for holding a diverse view. I mean, if irony could kill, they'd be dead because they're doing exactly what they charge people on the right are doing. You know, I mean, they charge my friend Charlie Kirk with being a fascist because we all know, Mike, that a fascist tactic is to hand the microphone to your opponent and say, please make your case. I will listen. 

I mean, The people against Charlie Kirk are the fascists. The people that shot him or the guy that shot him is a fascist. It's crazy what the left does. They do exactly what they claim you're doing. You're not doing it. 

They are. 

Do these events feel different since Charlie was assassinated? 

Yes. This is the first event where we had mass protest. The other events, I guess I did four or five college events prior to this. They were all scheduled prior to Charlie. Tonight, I'll be at the University of Alabama, Lord willing. And then next Thursday, Boise State. 

But so far, other than this event, the college events have been mostly Christians and people sympathetic to TPUSA showing up. And it's been more cathartic than it has been adversarial. Although I will say everybody's been the room at Berkeley the other night was a supporter. The first guy claimed to be part of Antifa, and he asked Rob Schneider a question, and he was very disrespectful to Rob. And Rob got back to him with some sarcasm of his own, and then later shook his hand, because Rob was saying, You know, we're the peaceful ones in here. 

We're the ones that want to have a conversation. It's the people on your side who are outside of this venue right now, hurling bottles and and lighting off firecrackers and spitting on people. We want to have a conversation and you guys don't. Now, what's the way forward? Let's have a conversation. 

Yeah, that's great. What did you say when the Turning Point people said, hey, Frank, How about Berkeley? 

You want to go? 

Boise is one thing. 

Boise, great. 

Alabama, sure. You're going to go to Berkeley too. 

What was your first thought? 

Well, Charlie and I were talking about it months ago. I said, Charlie, if there's any campus I want to go with you to, it'd be Berkeley. He said, well, let's do it. So it was supposed to be me and Charlie the other night there. He's going to remain in glory, obviously, and did. 

So why did you want to go there? 

Oh, because it's the most liberal school in the country. I want to go into that. Those are the people I want to reach, you know, and the people around that area who are Christians, they need a lifeline. They need someone to come in and say, well, we're going to come into your area and speak, because typically you don't get that kind of speaker there. I mean, you remember, how long ago was this, Mike? Was it five or six years ago, six, seven years ago when Ben Shapiro went there? 

And they had to have 600 police officers protect him. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Let's let's let's talk about how we're all. 

inclusive, tolerant, and diverse, but anybody that disagrees with us, we won't include and we won't tolerate. It's so hypocritical. Lightbulb you lit in my head, which was that people say there's no such thing as truth. Is that true? It's the same illogic right from the very jump for these people. 

What would you say your mission is? 

Are you there to encourage believers or convince the atheists more? 

Yes. How about both? My goal on a college campus is to encourage and equip the Christians and put a stone in the shoe of the skeptics. Look, you're not going to reach people like Antifa because they're totally closed off. And Jesus talked about this. He said, don't cast your pearls before swine because they will trample you to death. 

Now, you need to know who the swine are, who are the people that have their minds completely closed, may even have some sort of demonic activity going on. You're not going to reach them. Nobody's going to reach. They're not open. But there are people in the middle. And look, not everybody on the left agrees with Antifa. 

We can't be like the left and and paint everybody with a broad brush. If you have leftist political views, I hope you don't agree with Antifa on the method of achieving those views, right? 

But about a third of young people who are students think it's okay to use violence to oppose a political idea, whereas only about 3 % of very conservative students think that, and that's 3 % too many. But when you got a third of left -wing students saying violence is okay to advance or to oppose a political idea, we got a big problem here. 

Talking to Dr. Frank Turek, Charlie Kirk's mentor. How often do you think about September 10th? First thing I think about when I wake up is Charlie. Last thing I think about before I go to sleep is Charlie. I was there. It's going to take a while. 

It was just an awful stain on our country, an awful stain on our politics. But, on the other hand, Mike, it's also a demonstration that this world is fallen, that we're all fallen, that we all need a Savior, that evil is real, and if evil is real, that means good is real, because you can't have evil without good, and you can't have good without God. 

So this event actually shows God does exist, not that He doesn't, because it wouldn't even be evil unless God existed, and that's what I was talking about at Berkeley. You played that clip at the top of the show. 

Yeah. You weren't there. You were standing right next to him. Yeah, I mean, I was there because Charlie and I had spent the previous couple of days together, you know, talking about how to answer certain questions, particularly about the Christian faith, and even about Israel. People say, oh, he was waffling on Israel. No, he wasn't. 

I was in a meeting with him the day before he was murdered, talking about that, in fact, with three Israelis. So yeah, there's so much misinformation put out. And Candace Owens, unfortunately, is putting out a lot of it. She says she's asking questions, but she's insinuating that certain people are guilty when they're not. And that's just ethically wrong. I mean, my friend Mikey McCoy is getting death threats. 

I'm having people email me. 

You never know what can happen to you. 

You know, you ought to repent. Of what? You know, I mean, it's amazing. The ask questions. 

Didn't Charlie have a word for that? He had a phrase like the asking questions crowd or something like that. The just asking questions. It's okay to ask questions, it's not okay to insinuate people are guilty when you have no evidence. Okay? There's a difference between a possibility and evidence for a possibility. 

By the way, the same kind of thing happens when people talk about the resurrection. They'll say, oh, you know, somebody stole Jesus's body, or, you know, he swooned, or they went to the wrong tomb, and they come up with all these possibilities. All those things are possible, but you don't have any evidence for those. 

You need evidence to say, yeah, that's what we think happened. I mean, it's possible aliens took his body, Mike. 

But we don't have evidence for that. 

Yeah, but we do have evidence for a different thing. Of course, the truth. Yeah, he rose from the dead. Yeah. 

I asked earlier in the show, I asked if anyone has any questions for the email. And I got a couple of good ones here. This is from Dan. He said, what was Charlie like in the beginning stages of wanting to understand more and improve his wisdom or knowledge? Well, as I said at the memorial service, it can be hard to mentor somebody smarter than you. but not with Charlie Kirk because the only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility. 

And the few things that I knew that he didn't, he wanted to know. So Charlie was the same always. He was always asking questions. He could learn from anybody because he knew he needed to learn from anybody. I mean, 31 years old, Mike. I mean, look at how accomplished he was at 31. 

Why was he accomplished at 31? Because he knew that he could learn from other people and he took the opportunity to do so. He wasn't a know -it -all. He was somebody that knew he didn't know everything, and wanted to learn so much so he could be a better ambassador for Christ. He wanted to do two things. 

He wanted to bring skeptics to Jesus, and he wanted to bring people on the left to the right, and also affirm people on the right to know that we ought to learn. conserve values, not just values, they're moral truths, they're not just my opinion, to conserve what we know is good, right, true, and beautiful. That's what conservatives are supposed to do, conserve what's right and beautiful. That's what we're supposed to do, and Charlie wanted to do that. Give me an example recently, or whatever, of the stone in the shoe. I love that idea. 

You just want to throw a little, just some little thing that sticks with someone. What has been a stone in the shoe lately that someone's come back to you with and been like, oh man, you got me, Dr. Turek. You got me. That was the stone and I couldn't let it go. Well, evil is a big stone in the shoe of unbelievers because they have no standard by which to even tell you what evil is. Because if there is no standard of good that we're obligated to obey, then evil itself doesn't really exist. 

It's just your opinion. It's just something you don't like. It's just a preference. But the only way there can be a standard that all humanity is obligated to obey is if there is a God whose nature is good and who has said that we needed to obey that nature, otherwise we were immoral or wrong or unjust. You see, in order to say something's unjust, you have to know what justice is. In order to know what – in order to say something's immoral, you have to know what morality is. 

In order to say someone's not right, you have to know what right is. But those things only exist in a theistic world. They don't exist in an atheistic world where we're all just moist robots dancing to our DNA, as Richard Dawkins put it. And so evil is a big stone in the shoe of non -believers. Evil doesn't disprove Christianity. Evil doesn't disprove God. 

In fact, Christianity is the answer to the problem of evil. There'd be no reason for Jesus to be evil. if evil didn't exist. That's why he came. So evil is a big stone in the shoe. What you mentioned earlier is a big stone in the shoe. 

When people say self -defeating things, you know, when they say there's no truth and you ask them, is that true? Or when they say you ought not judge and then you say to them, then why are you judging me for judging? You know, these are self -defeating statements. When they say there are no absolutes and you say, are you absolutely sure? When they say all truth is relative and you say, is that a relative truth? When they say you can't know anything and you say, then how can you know that? 

You see, there's so many illogical things uttered by people on the left that once you unveil the law of non -contradiction on them, they suddenly go – they get all befuddled, and you know what they wind up doing? They don't argue. They wind up emoting, and that's what Antifa does. They can't argue for their position. 

It's wrong. 

It's indefensible. 

So what do they do? They emote. That's all it is. It's just rage. Yeah. Dr. Frank Turek, crossexamine . 

org is the website. 

I want to talk about some of the curriculum that I've since been doing in a moment at the website. Crossexamine . 

org, buy his book, Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. 

By the way, moist robots, are those your words or his words? 

Are those actual Dawkins words? 

Moist robots? Moist robots is my word. Okay, that's your assessment. Yeah. His phrase is dancing to our DNA. Okay. 

Yeah. So we're just like, Just like our chemicals in our brain and the DNA, either one of those are bleak. That's like a bleak worldview. That's so sad. But on the evil point, I'm channeling Bill Maher and people like Bill Maher. 

Two things he'll say. Let me get your first one. 

You say he's good. How can we know evil if we don't know good? 

and God is good? 

Okay. 

He's also corrupt and petty and vicious and cruel. 

What do you say to that? Yeah. I would ask by what standard? 

By what moral standard are you saying those things? My standard. I think it's bad to kill all this giant group of people, which God did. If there's no God, that's just your opinion. Okay. Why is that wrong? 

Because I say it's wrong. Can't I just say it's wrong? What's wrong with that? Yeah, it's just your subjective opinion. It's like saying, I like chocolate, vanilla, and you like, or I like chocolate ice cream and you like vanilla ice cream. Okay, it's just a preference. 

But he doesn't act like it's a preference. You see, he has to steal a standard from God in order to argue against him. That's another book I wrote called Stealing from God, like atheists need God to make their case, okay? You have to steal a standard to say God is immoral. 

Now it turns out when you read the Bible and you see God judging people for evil, that's really what's going on. 

And God has the right to take people out whenever He wants. Look, we don't have the right to do that, but if God wants certain people to be judged now and move from this life into the next life, that's up to Him. You know, if Christianity is true, people don't die, they just change location. They go from this life to the next life. That's up to God, not up to us. So, look, let me say something about Bill Maher. 

I've been on the show years ago, a few times. I think Bill Maher makes more sense than most pastors, many times. Say more. 

He will talk on these issues where pastors won't, like transgenderism. Maher's all over it. He's going, this is crazy. He said, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a pirate. 

Thank God nobody took me seriously and took me for eye removal and peg leg surgery. You know, I mean, Maher gets many things right, even though he's an atheist. He still has. the standard of good on his heart written there by God, as Paul says in Romans chapter 2, the Gentiles and I have the law of the world written on their hearts, so he gets many things right. He just has no way of justifying what right is unless God exists. What's the best atheist argument to that? 

The Sam Harris, what's the Sam Harris argument to what you just said? How do they steal man? Can you steal? Sam Harris's argument is, well, what's right is human flourishing. And we might agree with Sam. Right. 

But what he's confusing is a couple of things. First thing, he has no standard by which to say humans should flourish. He's smuggling in a moral law in order to say that. Right. Why human beings? Why not dolphins? 

Why not roaches? Why not? And which human beings? Why us and not the Nazis? You know, who should flourish? So he's smuggling a moral standard into a system And secondly, he's confusing two things that many atheists confuse. 

They might say something like, hey, Mike, I know right from wrong. I don't need your God. We're not talking about knowing right and wrong. That's epistemology. That's how you know something. 

We're talking about the standard of morality itself. 

Why does that exist? That's not epistemology. That's ontology. 

And they're confusing epistemology, how you know something, with ontology, the existence of the thing you know. You know, you can drive down the street and see the speed limit 70 miles an hour and deny there's a traffic authority, right? You can know the speed limit and still deny that there's a traffic authority, but there would be no speed limit to know unless there was a traffic authority. And that's the problem with atheists. They know right from wrong, but they deny the authority that establishes right and wrong, whose nature is right. and wrong, not wrong, but is right, is the standard of right, and any deviation from that would be what's wrong. 

Okay. 

All right. 

That's a brilliant job explaining that to me like I'm in 10th grade. Can you explain that too? Say everything you just said again, like I'm eight years old. 

Like you're eight years old. 

It might be wrong to punch your sister, okay, if mommy exists. 

But if mommy doesn't exist, it's just your sister's opinion against your opinion, right? In other words, there has to be an authority that establishes what good or right is. And so for you to say, or for someone to say it's wrong to punch your sister, there has to be a standard of good that says it's wrong to punch your sister. If it's just your opinion against your sister's opinion, that's just two opinions. It's a preference. Yes. 

Even if you ignore mommy, the example that we used in the, your homeschool curriculum for second to fifth graders that we did last night was literally, if your mom says clean your room and you ignore her, she still said it. Whether you, whether you pretended to, whether you, you still heard it. Like you can, you can pretend like you didn't, but you did and your room still needs to be cleaned. Yep. Yeah. You can, you can know something is wrong and not do it, obviously. 

But something wouldn't really be wrong unless there was a standard of right that you could define wrong by. Because you see, evil is not a thing in itself, it's a lack and a good thing. So evil is like cancer. If you take all the cancer out of a good body, you have a better body. What happens if you take all the body out of the cancer? You got nothing, doesn't exist. 

Or evil is like rust in a car. If you take all the rust out of a car, you have a better car, but if you take all the car out of the rust, you got a pinto. Now, you got something that doesn't exist, right? In other words, evil is a lack in a good thing. Evil is what we might call anti -creation. God creates good things. 

God created Charlie Kirk, and Tyler Robinson did evil by destroying the good thing that God had created. Now, Charlie Kirk still exists, but his body has been destroyed. He still exists, he's absent from the body present with the Lord, But the bad thing that was done was anti -creation. God creates good things and human beings degrade those good things, and that's what evil is. It's anti -creation. I got one more apologetist question. 

Bill Maher would ask this too. He calls all the stories comically stupid. Floating hands on walls, people turning into salt, all the animals on a boat. Come on, Frank. Talking donkeys. 

Yeah, well, the only reason he thinks that is because he's an anti -supernaturalist. 

He thinks that only natural things can occur, but what he's missing is that this whole natural world was created to begin with and is sustained right now. The natural laws that are governing the universe right now were put there by a lawgiver, and they're sustained by a lawgiver. And they're not even the greatest miracles in the Bible. The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. If that verse is true, Mike, every other verse in the Bible is at least possible. And now even atheists are admitting the evidence for the first verse. 

They're admitting the universe had a beginning. Of course, they don't think it's God, but what else could it be? 

If space, time, and matter had a beginning out of nothing, whatever created the universe has to at least be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful to create the universe out of nothing, personal in order to choose to create, and intelligent to have a mind to make a choice. 

So he's asked people, when you think about a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause, who do you think of? God. That's what we call God, okay? So if Genesis 1 -1 is true, if even atheists are admitting the evidence for that verse, then every other verse in the Bible is at least possible. 

Of course it's crazy by natural laws, but we're not saying a natural law caused you know, a hand to write on the wall or Jesus to walk on water or rise from the dead. 

We're not we're not saying you need natural law to even recognize what a miracle is. You know, you wouldn't be able to recognize that hands don't normally write on walls, you know, without a without an arm. You know, you wouldn't normally recognize that a man walks on water unless natural laws existed. You know, you wouldn't recognize you couldn't determine what a miracle was or discover what a miracle was. unless you had these natural laws that did the same thing over and over again, because miracles are an exception to those things. 

Who made God? No one made God, because He is the unmade maker. You don't ask who created the uncreated creator. We just mentioned that God is timeless. If you're timeless, do you have a beginning? No. 

No, you don't have a beginning, you don't have a cause. He is the uncaused first cause. And there has to be an uncaused first cause, otherwise nothing would exist. So it's either the universe is something outside the universe, but all the evidence shows the universe had a beginning, therefore it must be something outside the universe that is the uncaused first cause. Dr. Frank Turk, let me again give the pitch for your book, one of your books, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. 

There's a few more. But I also got to commend you and co -author on the curriculum. So since last time we talked, I immediately bought the second to fifth grade student workbook. And we've been going through it with the kids. We go through it sometimes in the morning or dinnertime or in bed and we just roll through it. It is phenomenal. 

It is so good. The kids are so tracking with it. Dr. Turk, it's like case study, perfect tracking. They'll read it and then they'll ask a question. And it's literally the next part of the thing. 

It's perfectly outlined. I cannot give it, it could not be better. the way it's written and how it's written and the flow of it and the building on top of it. It's just perfection. And every single person with a second to fifth grader, Johnny's Johnny's in kindergarten. He gets it. 

So you can go, you can go below kindergarten to fifth grade. I would say, get that one. I can't vouch for the sixth, eighth or high school. I'm sure it's just as good, but I can only give you the highest approval for everyone listening to get the, uh, at least the very first second to fifth grade, uh, curriculum. How did you guys develop? I think it's called. 

Yes, God, it's real. It's on our website. Cross examine .org. 

Just click on store. You'll find it. Yeah. 

Go get it. Everyone get, I'm not kidding. You got to get that. And then if you're an adult, Start with five copies of I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. 

Might as well get ten, because you'll read it and then you'll give out a bunch to everyone else. 

Dr. Turek, keep up the wonderful work. 

Are you slowing down? Are you going to stop at all? Getting tired? Getting old? Well, University of Alabama tonight, Boise State next week. We'll get a little break over Thanksgiving, but yeah, it's been tiring, but we got to move forward. 

Hearts are tender, Mike. That's what we're doing. Crossexamined . org, Dr. Frank Turek. Dr. Turek, thank you for your time today. Thank 

Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it, God bless. Crossexamined . org, and I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. I'm not exaggerating when I talk about the book. You buy 10 of them, just buy 10 of them, you'll hand them all out. 

And we've had a wonderful time. Truly, it's been a joy reading through his homeschool curriculum because the kids, I'm not, I'm not, whatever I said there is 100 % true. I'll be reading something and the kids will ask a question. And I'll do the best I can to answer it. And then it's the very next paragraph in the curriculum is explaining the question that they just asked. It's so logically and perfectly outlined. 

And the kids get it and they're excited about it. They're excited that they get it. It's really, really good. Crossexamine . org is the website. A lot of information there to click around on and get the resources you need to help you work. 

Mike Slater . locals . com for the transcript and no commercials.

 

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IX. The Knight is humble, magnanimous ...

November 19, 2025

You were terse and dismissive in this morning's 7:25 Eastern time call with the Man with four step children applying for Naturalization from his Naturalized U.S. Wife of Philippine descent. You should be more considerate of history about America's relationship such as with the Philippine People, which is quite notable with intrinsic factors which should have favorable weight in consideration the Filipino propensity to immigrate and become American Citizens.

"The Resident Commissioner of the Philippines was a non-voting member of the U.S. House of Representatives from 1907 until the Philippines gained independence in 1946. This role was established under the Philippine Organic Act of 1902, allowing the Philippines to have representation in Congress, similar to current non-voting members from U.S. territories."

Don't be so apparently xenophobic and stop misrepresenting American (and Christian while you're at it) History in omission through culpable ignorance.

The Philippines, 1898–1946
...

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November 11, 2025

Happy Veterans' Day.
Support our Troops. Before. During. After.

St. Martin, Bishop of Tours, Confessor, Soldier of the State, Soldier of Christ
November 11
https://www.bartleby.com/lit-hub/lives-of-the-saints/volume-xi-november/st-martin-bishop-of-tours-confessor

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Christmas Eve: Journey of the Magi
Politics By Faith, December 24, 2025

A poetry reading on this Christmas Eve, from the great T.S. Eliot. He starts by quoting a Christmas sermon from 1622 and then ends with a line I hope to think of every day this year.

Welcome to Politics by Faith, a very special Christmas Eve edition. Taking a time out from preparing Christmas Eve and a little bit of prep on Christmas Day's feast for a quick poetry reading. 

T . S. Eliot became a Christian when he was 38 years old. There's a lot to share there in his journey as well, but this poem of his was his proclamation of becoming a Christian. It's called The Journey of the Magi. He wrote it in 1927. It starts off with a quote. 

A cold cuts three stanzas. A cold coming, we had of it. Just the worst time of the year for a journey. Such a long journey. The waves deep and the weather sharp. The very dead of winter. 

That quote is a paraphrase of a Christmas sermon that was given in 1622 by Lancelot Andrews. How about that for a name? Lancelot Andrews. The original line is, so this is the preacher speaking of the Magi. T . S. 

Eliot's poem is from the perspective of the Magi, so he changes a little bit there, but here's the original sermon. A cold coming they had of it at this time of year, just the worst time of the year to take a journey, and especially a long journey. The waves deep, the weather sharp, the days short, the sun farthest off, the very dead of winter. Let me read a little more from that sermon, actually. It's so good. Come is soon said, but a short word, but many a wide and weary step they made. 

before they could come to say lo here we are come and at our journey's end it's like easy to be like yeah yeah we're coming this was a journey we don't exactly know but somewhere between 500 and 900 miles maybe took one to three months for the magic. We just read about it in a sentence or two in the Bible. And we're like, oh yeah, they saw a star and they followed it and they arrived. You're like, well, hold on. That's a very long journey, a miserable journey. 

And certainly a journey that somewhere along the line, one of the guys had to be like, meh, are we, do we really want to do this? Do we need to do this? We just do something else instead. Should we just turn around? Should we turn around? We should turn around. 

Shouldn't we turn around? 

Months. 

Of this journey, the preacher goes on, we must consider the distance of the place they came from. It was not hard as by the shepherds. This was riding many a hundred miles. The shepherds only came a little bit. The way they came was through deserts, all the way waste and desolate. It was exceedingly dangerous through the midst of thieves and cutthroats. 

At the time of their coming, the season of the year, it was no summer progress. A cold coming they had of it at this time of year, just the worst time to take a journey. And he goes on, that's where the weather deep, sharp, days short. And these difficulties they overcame of a wearisome, dangerous, unseasonable journey. And for all this, they came to see Jesus because there was a star. These pagans saw a star. 

That's what they did. They studied the stars. If you heard our interview with Lee Strobel recently, he talked about how these were people who studied stars. So they would have noticed something odd and they followed it. Just hard for us to imagine, right? Navigation by the stars. 

They did that back then. Okay. Let's keep going. So that's just the first little opening quote. And then so T . S. 

Eliot then speaks just like this preacher did about how difficult this journey was. And the camels galled, sore -footed, refractory, lying down in the melting snow. 

There were times we regretted. 

The summer palaces on slopes, the terraces and the silken girls bringing sherbert. This is what they left. Then the camel men cursing and grumbling and running away and wanting their liquor and women. And the night fires going out and the lack of shelters and the cities hostile and the towns unfriendly and the villages dirty and charging high prices. A hard time we had of it. At the end, we preferred to travel all night, sleeping in snatches with the voices singing in our ears, saying that this was all folly. 

What are we doing? Look what we left. We left a beautiful place for this. And all day, sleeping in snatches, singing in our voices, singing in our ears, saying, what are we doing? Let's go to stanza number two. Then at dawn, we came down to a temperate valley, wet below the snow line, smelling of vegetation with a running stream and a water mill beating the darkness and three trees on the low sky. 

And an old white horse galloped away in the meadow. Then we came to a tavern with vine leaves over the lintel, six hands at an open door, dicing for pieces of silver and feet kicking the empty wine skins. But there was no information. And so we continued and arrived that evening. Not a moment too soon finding the place. It was, you may say, satisfactory. 

You can go back and listen to that stanza again and, or better yet, you read it and you can see, maybe easier to see, the, um, all the allusions to Jesus. Three trees. for the three chords. A white horse. Maybe the water mill beating the darkness is baptism. We have a river here, like a water river of life. 

We have dice, right? Casting of lots. Jesus is the vine. We have wineskins. A lot of biblical imagery here as they're on their journey. And essays and essays could be written about the last line of this penultimate stanza. 

And arriving at evening, not a moment too soon, finding the place, it was, you may say, satisfactory. When I first hear the word satisfactory, I think, uh, it's like, uh, all right, I guess. I guess it's fine. It's like a motel six or something like, all right, like it's a bad, I guess, I guess it's fine. Right. But no, that's not what satisfactory meant. 

So I went back to Webster's 1828 dictionary. Satisfactory, a most wise and sufficient means of salvation by the satisfactory. 

and meritorious death and obedience of the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ. 

" That's their definition of the word satisfactory. It means Christ is the satisfaction of the law. Satisfied. We've turned satisfied into a performance review. Satisfactory, not satisfactory, above satisfactory. Satisfactory is amazing. 

Satisfactory is unbelievably profound. We have this long and this constant longing that we can never fulfill until we die and go to heaven to be satisfied. And Jesus was the price paid. His death on the cross was the price paid for our sins. It's satisfied. It was satisfactory. 

So it shouldn't be read, and arrived that evening, not a moment too soon, finding the place. Were we led all that way for birth? There was a birth, certainly. We had evidence, no doubt. I had seen birth and death, but I thought they were different. This birth was hard and bitter agony for us, like death, our death. 

We returned to our places, these kingdoms, but no longer at ease here. And the old dispensation, just way of things, and our old way of things. With an alien people clutching their gods, I should be glad of another death. No longer at ease here. Everything's different for them. It's the same. 

The place is the same, but they are different. They now see these alien people clutching their gods. They saw Jesus. And we know Jesus. We put to death our old ways. Once they saw the Savior, the old way of things for them was a death. 

Just like when we become Christians. And they didn't feel at ease where they were anymore. And neither should we. Our real home is heaven. Hence this unbelievable last line, I should be glad of another death. I think of the story of the Magi as a bit of an odd placement in the Bible. 

I love that like I'm a Like, I'm the editor. I mean, I don't know, God. I don't know if you really needed to put this part in here. It seems a little random. God put it in there for a reason. He wanted us to know the Magi as a part of the birth of Jesus. 

And I don't think it was just plot development to get Herod involved and all. He wanted us to know their story. And I love this poem. 

It's a nice reminder that God came with us, Emmanuel, to save us so we can go to heaven. 

We are with an alien people clutching their gods down here. I should be glad of another death. Merry Christmas. Mike Slater dot Locals dot com. Transcript commercial free on the website. Mike Slater dot Locals dot com.

 

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George Washington and Revelation 6
Politics By Faith, December 17, 2025

Homeland Security quoted a line from Thomas Paine's "American Crisis". This post from DHS reminded me that it is almost the 249th anniversary of George Washington crossing the Delaware. We should understand Revelation 6, which Paine referenced in his essay and which was read to the men in Washington's Army.

Welcome to Politics by Faith. Thanks for being here. The other day, yesterday, I believe it was, we quoted John Locke with his Appeal to Heaven, which made it to the George Washington approved, commissioned flag. Appeal to Heaven, a quote on Judges 1127, John Locke and his second treatise of government. Today, I want to go from John Locke to Thomas Paine. Thomas Paine, during the Revolutionary War, in the beginning of it, we were losing. 

We were getting crushed battle after battle. And Thomas Paine wrote The American Crisis, a series of 13 essays, in order to boost morale. A lot of famous lines in there. These are the times that try men's souls, one of them. I just want to share some of it here. He starts off explaining the desperateness of the situation. 

He says, let it be told to the future world that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive, that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet and to repulse it. The heart that feels not now is dead. The blood of his children will curse his cowardice, who shrinks back at a time when a little might have saved the whole. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow brave by reflection. Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm and whose conscience approves his conduct will pursue his principles unto death. " So I'm just imagining being 1776 and you're in this country that's getting attacked by the king and how desperate the situation is and reading this. 

is to myself as straight and clear as a ray of light, not all the treasures of the world, so far as I believe, could have endured. me to support an offensive war, for I think it murder. But if a thief breaks into my house, burns and destroys my property, and kills or threatens to kill me, or those that are in it, and to bind me in all cases whatsoever to his absolute will, am I to suffer it? Of course not. " And then he makes a reference to Revelation 6 .16. That's why I'm talking about it now here in the Politics by Faith podcast. Revelation 6 .16. He doesn't quote Revelation 6 .16. He was so familiar, and so was his audience, so familiar with Revelation 6 .16 that he could just talk of it. Most historians today overlook how often our founding fathers would quote the Bible, because if you have no biblical knowledge of your own, you would miss this. You wouldn't even recognize that it was of the Bible because he doesn't say, as it says in Revelation 6, it doesn't say that. It just says these words. I conceive likewise a horrid idea in receiving mercy from a being who at the last day, so he's talking about if we lose this war, Even if they were to grant me mercy, I conceive it a horrid idea of receiving mercy from a being who at the last day shall be shrieking to the rocks and mountains to cover him and fleeing with terror from the orphan, the widow and the slain of America." That's Revelation 6, 16. 

So he's talking about how the British, even if they win this war, they will be cursed by God. They will be like people on the Latin, the last days. I'll wrap up with Revelation 6, 16 at the end of this podcast here. But the British too will be taken out by God, crying to God for forgiveness. for their sins. " Thomas Paine says, there are cases which cannot be overdone by language and this is one. 

And then he goes on and he says this, which Department of Homeland Security posted the other day with a painting of George Washington crossing the Delaware. Not the famous one, a different one, but still a great painting of Washington crossing the Delaware. Paine said, I thank God that I fear not. I mean, it just went through a pretty horrific description of the state of things, but his turn is, I thank God that I fear not. I see no real cause for fear. I know our situation well and can see the way out of it. 

I saw Homeland Security posted that and under it, someone posted a meme with that painting and it says, Americans will cross a frozen river to kill you in your sleep on Christmas. Literally not kidding. We've done that before. Which brings me to December 26th, 1776, 249 years ago. It's always fascinating to me how we look back on history and we think, oh, well, of course it turned out that way. Of course we won World War II. 

Of course we won the Revolutionary War. Of course, George Washington made it across the Delaware. Of course, we invented the atom bomb first. Of course, of course, of course, we made it to the moon, whatever. Of course, we did this thing. Of course, the Wright brothers were the first to invent. 

No, not even close. All these things that we look back on and think, well, yeah, of course it went this way. They're all miracles. And George Washington crossing the Delaware coming out to about 249 years ago was absolutely one of those miracles. His men were starving. It was freezing cold. 

It was in the 20s. There was a nor 'easter. The wind, they wrote, cut like a knife, driving sleet and snow. Many of them had no shoes. And they went on a three mile hike to get to the river by midnight. Three, three mile hike, 20 degrees, not wearing anywhere near proper attire, pitch black to get to the starting point of the mission. 

And that's when George Washington, 2 ,400 men, 18 cannons, 200 horses crossed the Delaware. Well, of course that worked. No, there were two other crossings planned at the same time or attempted, I should say. So three in total, two of them never made it. They never made it. The ice was too thick. 

The plan was too preposterous. And George Washington himself, the group he was in, he was about to abort too. They were three hours behind schedule. So by the time they made it across, if they made it across, there was still another 10 mile hike that would take another five hours. So they'd get there after the sun came up, they would lose the surprise and they'd all be killed. But he decided in his own words, quote, push on. 

Thank God they did. 22 enemy soldiers were killed, 98 wounded. The Americans captured a thousand prisoners. Only three Americans were killed in the Battle of Trenton, thanks to George Washington's crossing of the Delaware. And this was the turning point. It should not have worked. 

Conditions couldn't have been worse. They fought through a Nor 'easter. Thomas Paine published his first essay on December 19th, 1776 in Philadelphia. It was read to George Washington's troops on December 23rd, 1776. Right before, on Christmas Day, they crossed the Delaware. These are the times that try men's souls. 

The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country. But he that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered. Yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. Let's go to Revelation 6, which Thomas Paine knew intimately enough to reference as an offhand imagery, and that the American people and the people fighting, crossing that Delaware, knew so well that it was powerful and meaningful to them. Revelation 6 is about the six seals on the white horse, red horse, black horse, pale horse. 

Then we finally get to the fifth. Let me quote here. When he, Jesus, opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? Then a white robe was given to each of them, and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. When all the martyrs are made, God will set it right. 

Then the sixth season began. This is the one that Thomas Paine was referencing. I looked when he opened Jesus opened the sixth seal and behold there was a great earthquake and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair and the moon became like blood and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as a fig tree drops its late figs when it's shaken by a mighty wind then the sky receded as a scroll when it's opened up and every mountain island was moved out of its place and here it is the kings of the earth The great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains. 

Okay. 

They hid themselves and said, let me go back to Thomas Paine. He said, I conceive likewise, a horrid idea and receiving mercy from a being who at the last day shall be shrieking to the rocks and mountains to cover him. Here's revelation 616. So everyone, great men, mighty men, commanders, kings of the earth. They shall hide in the caves and rocks of the mountains and said to the mountains and rocks, fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb for the great day of his wrath has come. And who is able to stand all the mighty Kings, all the great men, everyone brought low. 

It's so bad. They're begging the rocks to fall on them and crush them and kill them rather than face God or in this case, the wrath of the lamb. And that's the final point I want to make here. coming up on Christmas. The wrath of the lamb in Revelation 6. The lamb we think of as the gentle lamb, the baby who we are. 

celebrating coming to earth, Emmanuel, God with us, right? Maybe you'll see some Christmas plays or whatever. That's a little baby, right? This innocent little precious baby, the gentle lamb. Well, his judgment in Revelation 6 is so dreadful that all the mighty kings and great strong men will plead to die, plead to be crushed by rocks rather than face him. So let us celebrate first George Washington and the men who crossed the Delaware. 

Coming up here on the 249th anniversary of that, let us celebrate Jesus as a baby. And also let us know that the wrath of the lamb will happen. Let's not be the people begging to be crushed by rocks rather than face him. We should be people who run to Jesus as a place of refuge, not people who run to caves, begging to be crushed to death. I'll end here. Could go on forever about this. 

Go to Revelation 16. This is the pouring out of the bowls. And this is the third, the third angel poured out the bowl on the rivers and springs of water and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, you are righteous. So Lord, so you're thinking you hear all these, this wrath and it's horrible and awful. And here's, here's an angel saying you are righteous. 

So Lord, the one who is and who was and who is to be, because you have judged these things for, they have shed the blood of saints and prophets and you have given them blood to drink. So that's their punishment. They shed the blood. Their punishment is they have to drink the blood for it is their due. And I heard from. I heard another from the altar saying, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous 

are your judgments. Even in the midst of what we may look at today and think horrible, rough, whatever. From our perspective, God is good. God is good. His punishments are fair and appropriate and just. So repent, run to him, make him Lord of your life. 

Merry Christmas. Mike Slater, not your normal Christmas message. MikeSlater . Locals . com. Transcript commercial free. It's all on that website. MikeSlater .

 

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An Appeal To Heaven, Rob Reiner
Politics By Faith, December 16, 2025

Two topics on today's podcast: I love when the Appeal To Heaven flag returns to the news. Also, too many families know what the Reiner family went through with an addict son.

Welcome to Politics by Faith. Thanks for being here. I want to talk about Rob Reiner in a moment. Let me get this out off my chest first. Every once in a while, this flag comes up in the news and it's great when it does. The latest is a USA Today report. 

The congressional reporter at USA Today found a Christian nationalist flag. In his words, a controversial Christian nationalist flag. This one hanging outside the DC office of a top education department official. This USA Today reporter is very upset because this is the flag that was raised by rioters during the January 6th insurrection. Don't remember it there, but I'm sure someone had the flag. It's the same flag that flew at Sam Alito's house. 

Unbelievable. 

It's the Appeal to Heaven flag. It's a white flag with a tree in the middle and in black letters on the top it says Appeal to Heaven. Now this USA Today reporter, after being roundly criticized online, deleted the tweet and he wrote back, this flag is more accurately described as quote, a symbol associated with Christian nationalism. Why? Because when you call it a Christian nationalist flag, it makes it sound like the January Sixers made it up a couple of years ago. It's a brand new flag that they just made up themselves. 

The appeal to heaven flag was commissioned by George Washington. The tree, the pine tree in the middle was a symbol of new England. It's a symbol of, uh, well, it's a symbol of tyranny too, because the colonists, There were all these regulations that the crown put on the colonies of harvesting our own timber. The King's officials would come by and they would mark the best pine trees. It was an Eastern white pine. They'd mark the best pine trees for the King's Royal Navy, but they were our trees. 

and we wanted to use them for our boats. So the pine tree became a symbol of resistance and a symbol of independence and a symbol of our Navy, the boats, our boats that we'd use the trees for. There was also something called the Pine Tree Riot in New Hampshire in 1772. So that's the pine tree. The appeal to heaven comes from John Locke on his second treatise of government. And his point was that if you don't have anyone else to appeal to, in our case, appealing for freedom, then your ultimate appeal comes from heaven. 

He wrote, sufferers who have no, who having no appeal on earth to write them, they are left to the only remedy in which cases, in such cases, an appeal to heaven. And he quotes judges 1127, which says, you go a little bit back actually. Therefore, I have not sinned against you, but you wronged me by fighting against me. May the Lord, the judge. render judgment this day between the children of Israel and the people of Amman. So we have lacking a human court. 

The Jephthah must appeal directly to God and appeal to heaven. I love this story and I love when this flag pops up every once in a while because it highlights a few realities. One, that people have no idea about our history. That's sad. We should all know this flag. Everyone should be intimately aware of what this flag is. 

Second, how ignorant people are about our Christian roots and our Christian founding. where they see this flag and appeal to heaven and they're like, Oh, that must be some crazy evangelical Christian nationalism. George Washington, okay, appeal to heaven. George Washington commissioned the flag. John Locke wrote about it. And to prove how far we have to go still, that flag 

and the concept of an appeal to heaven should not be controversial. Go get the flag yourself. Fly it high, fly it proud. All right, let's talk about Rob Reiner and this horrible, tragic story. Rob Reiner's wife murdered by their son with a knife, slit throats, where it's reported. It's worth, as horrible as it is, I think it's worth taking a minute. 

I think it's important to take a minute to consider, to imagine this. And what Rob Reiner must have been thinking, and his wife must have been thinking, one of them saw the other die. They saw their son do it. The fear that... I don't even know. 

I don't even know. 

Just go there for a minute. It's important to do that, I think. It's about as awful as it gets. I don't know if there's a family, obviously. They made a movie together, Rob Reiner and his son, Nick. It's called Being Charlie, about their experience with addiction. 

Nick went to a It's called rehab for the first time when he was 15. He's been 17 times. He's been homeless in many different States before. I've seen three family photos and everyone in the family looks very happy and healthy and rich except for Nick. He's standing there, but he's not there at all. He's not wearing appropriate clothes that everyone else is wearing. 

And his eyes, his eyes are totally spaced out. It's just not, not there. And it's very sad. And I know this is very relatable for a lot of people. of families as well. I don't know enough about addiction. 

I'm just gonna be honest. I'm tangentially connected. I'm in no position to give any advice at all. What is the balance between people, you know, back in the day we used to say, you have a couple screws loose. That was the old expression. And how much of it comes from, like people are born that way versus how much of it is trauma from childhood. 

What the amounts are of each, I don't know. But I do know, and this is going to be next week's or this week's special is Spiritual Warfare is Real. I know it's real, and I know that plays a role. The Bible talks about alcoholism. Talk about nothing new under the sun. It's there. 

Isaiah 5, 1. Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evenings as wine inflames them. Titus 2, 3. Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine, not being a slave to wine. They are to teach what is good. It's a sin. 

And if you're addicted, you are a slave to it. It doesn't end well. Woe to those. Romans 6 20. It says, but when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at the time from the things of which you are now ashamed? 

For the end of those things is death. If you're a slave to sin, what do you get from it? Nothing. The end is death. I don't know how to break addictions other than the same way we break any sin. The only way to break sin, and that's through salvation with a new heart. 

We played the clip the other day of Jelly Roll on Joe Rogan's show, talking about a new heart, a new creation, not a slightly modified heart, not fixed a little bit here or there, a new creation, a new heart. Romans 6 .11 talks about being dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus. It's the only way to do it. My TV producer sent me a note the other day. It's something I'm thinking about a lot lately. Everyone's always like thoughts and prayers. 

You hear it all the time. Whenever there's a tragedy or thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers or thoughts and prayers go with now. Thoughts is the most ridiculous thing ever, but I'm setting my thoughts. I don't even know what that means. Really. It's definitely become an odd trite thing to say thoughts and prayers, but the prayers part is interesting too, because as my producer said, why not just pray right there? 

Thoughts and prayers is essentially a social way of acknowledging a situation, but not actually praying. Notice this in churches a lot too. You'll be seeing people in the hallways of the church and someone will share something. Oh man, I'll pray for you. And then you go on. And how many people actually pray for the person later? 

How often does that happen? Maybe a lot. I don't think so. Not enough. As opposed to, pray right there. Here's my challenge. 

If someone says something to you in church this Sunday, instead of saying, man, I'm going to pray for you about that. How about let's pray right now and just do it. Let's do it right there. No one will think you're weird. That's the place to do it. Now you do it anywhere, but that's a good place too. 

It's not an odd, it shouldn't be out of character to pray in the church building. What may be out of character is to pray on a podcast. Dear Heavenly Father, I want to pray for everyone who's going through addiction right now. Way too many people, God. I want to pray that you can break their addiction, give them a new heart and have the Holy Spirit speak so clearly to them that they can focus on you. and focus on good things. 

God, I pray for peace for families that are going through addiction with family members. God, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything more difficult than that. I pray for peace for them and a clarity, God, that everything will be perfect in heaven. There will be no crying or pain or addiction in heaven, and I can't wait to be there. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. We talk about the Puritans a lot on this show, and they wrote often about how God has limited our comforts here. 

and how that is a blessing so that we don't cling to this life too tightly, but instead we long for what is to come. We long for eternity. Maybe that perspective, if you can relate to what the Reiner family went through for a long time, if you can relate, maybe that perspective can be helpful. That's all I got. mikeslater . locals . com. Transcript commercial free on the website mikeslater .

 

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